gay marriage, hooray?
November 19, 2003 11:49 AM

If you don't know about the Massachusetts ruling that banning gay marriage is unconstitutional, I'd assume you were living in dark, dark hole. You should read the clip Ampersand posted.

But then. It's not getting the sort of instant, overwhelming press I would have expected. Is it a secret? Do, as Eris wonders 3/4 of people think gay marriage is bad? Is this really the blow for freedom we were waiting for, or just another blip (albeit a positive one), one more paint speck in this huge huge Seurat painting?

I feel hesitant. Actually, there's a really good description of how I feel over at Subversive Harmony. I mean, look at all the states with explicit definitions of marriage as man-woman (Virginia being one of them): Wisconsin being the latest. So, some states block the anti-gay laws, then others pass them. It ends up about even.

Or there's New Hampshire's implication that gay sex can't be adulterous, particularly ironic given that state's past tendency towards reasonableness on this issue.

I tend to side with Ampersand when looking at court-driven change. It works sometimes, sometimes it doesn't. Legislative bodies are a much clearer barometer of social change than courts, though both have been known to trump each other on this stuff. I just don't know.

I do know that some of my middle american family and friends think (or thought, rather) that gay marriage is a non-issue because gay people are so promiscuous that they wouldn't want marriage. They don't hate gayness; they just don't have any experience of relating to queer folk. There are people who last heard about gay culture in the eighties and haven't needed to think about gayness since then; maybe they're the 3/4 who oppose gay marriage. Maybe it's just about lack of information?

But then, the talk on the disturbing but sometimes funny conservative talk radio sure sounds like people are afraid of gay marriage. Afraid that extending the same privileges to people regardless of gender amounts to devaluing a sacred institution of the union of opposites, where opposition is defined by the possession of certain genitals. Sacredness. It's an argument just this side of "Jesus hates gay people, but he loves me".

I have a hard time grasping that argument. I have a hard time not just dismissing it as evidence of the stupidity of religion, and I don't even believe religion is stupid.

In any case, this week is a landmark for gay rights in Massachusetts. But I don't think it's anywhere near over.

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News coverage was slim here in SE Virginia. The local news didn't report on it at all that I saw, but it was surprising considering that we are so close to Pat Robertson. The really positive part of all this is that all his 700 Club friends are in a frenzy.

these are the thoughts of lunadyke on November 20, 2003 02:51 PM

Grrrr... meant to say that it wasN'T surprising

these are the thoughts of lunadyke on November 20, 2003 03:12 PM

Georgia's on the list, too. What a shock! Actually, what shocks me is when people talk about what a great gay city Atlanta is. I want to say, "Yeah? Which do you like better, the Southern Baptists or the sodomy laws?"

There's been a fair bit of coverage here in Boston, but then, one would expect coverage here, since it happened here. The latest I saw was that liberal-leaning Cambridge may start issuing licenses right away.

these are the thoughts of house9 on November 20, 2003 04:09 PM

Debbie Marks,SanAntonio TX

I, Don't think people understand the seriousness of this matter

We as of today do not know what causes people to be gay ...If its a problem
in the brain or just plain being a rebel ..maybe it's not a problem at all
. ...Until we find out what causes gayness "we don't need to legalize it"

the reason why young people are for gay rights is because psychologicaly they have a rebeliose nature...we all must relise the truth if 2 men where ment to marry and 2 women where ment to marry
they would be able to reproduce have children
"when I say ment i mean psychologicaly spiritualy and biologicaly and scientificaly...99.9% of all animals reproduce with opposite sex...
what i am trying to say its just not fitting
in all areas all relms of life and who ever is gay and reading this needs to relise that we should not change some things,And also that they have some sort of a mental emotional or chemical problem in there mind or bodies and it needs to be investigated....if i where the president i would ivest in an research team to pin point the reason for the problem that these people have you have to agree that statisticly you have a problem .compared to all the people who are born a very small percentage is gay..i go with the majority I belive we will have seriose re percussions on our lives if we allow these marriges to go through.All actions have a cociquence especialy this large of a change in our basic human structure of our lives .MARRIAGE .....

these are the thoughts of debbie on February 22, 2004 04:25 PM

To Debbie... In response to your first point - The CAUSE of gayness isn't at issue here, but the legal acceptance of difference in families. We legally sanction, for instance, the practice of any religion in the US, but we do not question what causes a person to choose one religion over another. Cause is not the issue. Nor is being gay inherently a problem.

If you say that marriage is only for procreation, what then happens to infertile male-female couples? Couples who choose not to have children? Strictly speaking, they shouldn't be allowed to get married, either, since they're not following the natural order for which marriage is intended.

Also, I know this is persnickety of me, but I'd appreciate it if you'd run any future comments through a spellcheck before posting. It's a bit difficult to read with all the typos.

these are the thoughts of april on February 23, 2004 11:16 AM

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