why i hate "liberals"
February 22, 2003 02:56 PM

We all know I don't actually hate liberals, but I do find some of them irksome at times.

I belong to a local (state, actually) Green Party discussion list that recently decided to limit membership to, well - membership - that is, to people who are "serious" enough about Green to belong to the party.

Aside from what I believe to be foolishness in removing a key link to the rest of the [non-member] community, the logic surrounding this change was just plain offensive. What happened was that the list was invaded by a troll, who didn't have a lot of value to add to the conversation (actually, the conversation tended to be rather petty to begin with, so I'm not sure the list added much value to my life, period). The moderators shunned him. The crowd (a handful of other members) went wild, sparking what turned out to be an interesting debate on censorship within liberal organizations - and in general.

And ultimately, the Green Party [or rather, the individual members who control the list] appears to come down on the side of censorship.

I quote, from an "official" email distributed to the list members: "On the censorship issue, I'd be surprised if anyone is completely against censorship. Is it right to yell "fire" in a crowded theater? Is hate speech protected?"

Surprisingly, yes. Some of us are completely against censorship. While I may feel some forms of speech are not right, or are offensive beyond what I will personally tolerate, I do feel that it's necessary to allow all political speech, whatever form, to be permitted [The "yelling fire" thing, so often used by censorship fans as the great "getcha", is not political speech, and is a spurious example. A red herring.]. My rationale is this: if people who agree with me get to decide what is and is not permissible now, what happens when people who don't agree with me are granted that power?

In order to protect my own speech, I must protect the right of others to speak. Period. A "liberal" who does not understand this is not liberal at all.

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your wicked thoughts

i agree.

i've been annoyed with the whole thing where some group is trying to get ebay from allowing what are considered racist collectibles. i mean, i personally i hate the things, but how are you going to censor an entire part of history? hmpf. anyways. yea it's not something you can pick and choose on because where do you draw the line?

these are the thoughts of inez on February 23, 2003 06:45 PM

That last thing that you did we spent the better part of a week trying to understand in Honours World History I. Some people just didn't see the connenctions in how, if you limit what someone else can say, you too will probably be limited.

The "fire!" in a movie theatre thing did come up, and I agree that it's not really the best example when talking about what to censor and what not to, if anything.

these are the thoughts of Kevin on February 24, 2003 06:36 AM

mein kampf!

these are the thoughts of hooky on August 24, 2003 03:40 PM

Liberalism=Communism. Think about it seriously. Big government, Good bye to your rights.

these are the thoughts of Rob Taggs on June 20, 2004 05:29 PM

Liberalism and Communism are more complex than that. Visit www.politicalcompass.org to get a better idea of how the "authoritarian" aspect of ones beliefs can drastically alter one's ideology. (For example, Stalin and Nelson Mandela are both "left wing" but one would hardly say they represent the same ideals.)
Governments, whether big or small, can protect rights and also supress them. It is our responsibility to debate in some detail - withour resorting to the childish insults that have been so often used in internet discussions - exactly what rights our government should be protecting. Our most important right is the freedom of speach, since without that freedom no discourse can take place. Censorship can only weaken us as a people.

these are the thoughts of Some Guy on August 21, 2004 12:30 AM

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